HSF Weekly Meeting #124, 1 February, 2018
Present/Contributors: Dario Menasce, John Harvey, Benedikt Hegner, Graeme Stewart, Eduardo Rodrigues, Torre Wenaus, Bernd Panzer, David Crooks, Frank Wuerthwein, Ian Collier, Mike Sokoloff, Oli Gutsche, Daniel Elvira, Mario Lassnig, Martin Barisits, Jim Pivarski, Andrea Sciabà, Eric Lancon, Simone Campana, Mark Neubauer, Liz Sexton-Kennedy, Eric Lançon, Mark Neubauer, Markus Schulz, Simone Campana, David Lange
News, general matters
- Liz Sexton-Kennedy has joined the organising team.
- We have sponsorship and foresee 30 minutes of
contributions - best to put this into technology watch (we
stressed no sales pitches).
- We don’t know if these are local (Italian) speakers, should clarify with the LOC.
- SKA contribution needs to be settled.
- Suggestion that clashing Performance and Costs and
Frameworks sessions is bad.
- Better options without disturbing the timetable too
- Could swap security and P&C/Fwk? Send email to convenors.
- Simulation wanted a second parallel slot, gave them
Wednesday early PM.
- 67 people registered so far.
- Opening Plenary
- All talks have speakers in place. There will be a welcome
introduction from some local dignitaries. We have 35
minutes for general discussion - should be guided.
- Technology Watch
- Meeting between convenors tomorrow.
- Dario: Should we cover Quantum Computing?
- HEP Use Cases
- David Lange joins Benedikt Hegner convening.
- Have a list of six presentations we would like to see. Will
contact potential speakers. Place/scope for ML unclear.
- Torre: Still an open question is how do we use GPUs (in
HPCs, for example)? But where to place that? Frameworks
and Infrastructure, WMS, Analysis have some overlap.
- Data Management/Lakes
- Also having a parallel working session (Wednesday early PM).
- General topics in the plenary, more specific things in the
- There is a draft agenda circulating.
- Frameworks and Infrastructure
- Re. HPCs should have a European speaker. (Lugano, JULICH).
- Training (Parallel)
- Dario Menasce and Sudhir Malik are convening. Albert Puig
contacted, waiting for his positive answer.
- Could get contribution from ALICE? (Dario Berzano, for example).
- Interesting insight expected from CERN School of Computing,
GridKa, Bertinoro and ROOT
- The CODATA schools may be of interest:
- DPHEP (Parallel)
- What’s coming from outside HEP (JDS):
- Active Data Management Plans (already in progress),
leading to “Actionable” DMPs (i.e., buy me this amount
- FAIR DMPs;
- “Domain protocols” (think of them like a domain-specific
- Certified (aka Trustworthy) Digital Repositories: a way
of “depositors” knowing that the TDR will look after
their data - even in the (v) long term and for
“consumers” to know that the data is “trustworthy”. It
has been suggested (Science Europe w/s, Brussels,
January 2018) that within 5 years only TDRs will be
listed in, e.g., re3data (and before that TDRs will have
a special symbol to identify them).
- CERN intends to be a TDR prior to next ESPP update
- Workload Management (Parallel)
- Frank Wuerthwein joins Torre as convenor.
- Torre - some initial topical ideas:
- Opportunistic computing & fine grained workflows - event
service, event streaming, relation to data lake
- Uniform interfaces to resources - problems (e.g. LCFs)
and solutions (e.g. HTCondor)
- Workload management systems as community tools - Dirac,
PanDA, ARC, …
- Advanced workload management - matching requirements to
capability (brokerage, matchmaking)
- Workflow management systems as community tools
- Integrating workflows and dataflows in next-gen workload
- User analysis as a service on distributed resources
- Provisioning specialized resources via WMSes, e.g. GPUs
- Is focus on common interests or just gathering info? No, it’s common
interests and R&D projects.
- How do we make that happen? Information exchange, but try to
have targets for common work.
- Oli: doing this in the Analysis session.
- Mike: short lightning talks on common packages to
facilitate collaboration, e.g., Jim Pivarski’s uproot.
- Analysis Facilities and Use Cases
- Eduardo and Oli are convening
- We drafted an agenda with 4-5 presentations and a final open
- Some ideas for speakers. 1-2 will be contacted in the next
- Will be able to give overviews of work in area.
- GPU facilities - cover the use cases.
- Programming for Concurrency and Co-Processors
- Jim Pivarski is one convenor.
- Language evolution and toolkits for the future is the theme.
- SciDaq4 interesting.
- Visualisation (Parallel)
- Security (Parallel)
- David Crooks is one convenor.
- Starting from three key areas:
- Trust and policies
- Operational Security
- Authentication and Authorisation
- Mine cannot co-convene. Susan Sons or Brian Brockleman?
- Simulation (Parallel)
- Two parallel slots, planning meeting later today.
- Fast simulation
- Improve physics
- Performance and Cost Modeling (Parallel)
- Pepe Flix, Andrea Sciabà, Frank Wuerthwein agreed to chair
- First draft of an agenda have been discussed within the
working group, this is still preliminary.
- Short overview of the the working group, mainly for non
working group members
- Status reports of the different tasks (short)
- A walkthrough of the resource needs projection process.
- Walkthrough through an example of a first cost model. Focus
is to identify the parameters that drive cost and how they
can be determined. This should include the exercise to
project from past data to current data.
- Discussions on metrics and how to proceed to a common model
(½ of the time)
- Based on the examples
- Leading to new prioritised task list
- If possible, organise parallel discussions of small teams
- Contact LOC about rooms for this
- Technical Discussion on Frameworks (Parallel)
- Marco Clemencic is one convenor. Would like a second
non-Gaudi person. Liz will look around.
- Software Development (Parallel)
- Giulio Eulisse and Martin Ritter got in touch. Martin
currently flying to Japan, will reconvene later this week.
- HSF Incubators being discussed.
- Closing Plenary
- Liz and Pere will discuss next week.
General Matters and Roadmap
- We have added many signatures - shall we update the arXiv copy
(N.B. also fix terrible typo on first page as well!)
- Agreed - announce and do this on Monday
- Discussions with editors of Computing and Software for Big
Science. They encourage us to submit the roadmap as is and
- How does this play with continuing to gather signatures?
- We want to have signatures added at least until Naples, so ask
editors to allow this update to be done before the article
gos to press (it will take time to review).
- Benedikt and Graeme met with Matthew Chalmers of the CERN
Courier. 2200-2500 word article anticipated (3-4 pages), this
will be a significant feature in the Courier. We hope to have
a draft next week and April publication foreseen.
Meeting ended at this point, remaining notes were added, but not discussed.
Publication strategy for Individual WG Papers
- Convenors hope to finish mid-February
Software Trigger and Event Reconstruction
Data Organisation, Management and Access
Data and Software Preservation
- Mike Hildreth will convert to LaTeX for arXiv, progress next
Data Analysis and Interpretation
- Mark started work to port to Latex for arXiv, clean up some
Event/Data Processing Frameworks
Careers, Staffing and Training
Facilities and Distributed Computing
- Discussion with convenors who think that we need to get more
MCnet input to proceed (Graeme: I don’t really agree and
what we need is someone who can lead the integration).
- We think no sense in publishing a separate document here.
- Preparation of agenda progressing
- Sponsorship proposal submitted to the Python Software Foundation
- They meet once a month, hence expect news in at most 3 weeks or
- Now proceeding to re-license HepMCv2 as LGPL2.1+. Need to also do
- Deadline for proposals is Friday 2 February.