HSF Weekly Meeting #132, 5 April, 2018
Present/Contributors: Graeme Stewart, Giulio Eulisse, Marco Clemencic, Marco Petric, Benedikt Hegner, Pere Mato, Enric Tejedor, Michel Jouvin, David Crooks, Torre Wenaus, David Lange, Eduardo Rodrigues, Simone Campana, Helge Meinhard, Andrea Valassi, Daniel Elvira, Liz Sexton-Kennedy, Martin Ritter, Robert (K?), Sudhir Malik, John (H?)
News, general matters
HSF/WLCG Workshop Follow-up
- Gather important items that we should be tracking after the workshop
(see workshop live
- We need a newsletter!
- Benedikt will give a WS summary in next week’s EP-SFT meeting.
Common Data Management and Data Lakes
- WLCG lead here.
- Are there software implications?
- Needs a global view and to see how the data will be used
by applications - production and analysis are quite
different. Software stacks and ROOT are important.
- Identified issues with content delivery, tape carousels,
etc. Horizontal and vertical dimensions.
- Will start a mailing list for this R&D.
- Need to relate to other WGs in this area, e.g., WLCG
Data Management Steering Group.
- Will have to organise regular meetings.
- Need to add a few more notes.
Frameworks and Infrastructure
- BOF session pre-CHEP - activity before that?
- 1 / month meeting to help here. Liz will help look for a
Programming for Concurrency and Co-Processors
- Tracking community seems quite well organised (CTD, Kaggle
- Michel spoke to David Rousseau, coordination between ACTS
and HEP.TrkX is taking place.
- Ongoing activity around the GeantV prototype.
- Geant4 have proposed R&D activities.
- Some concerns from Daniel about 2 weaker R&D area
- ML effort seems weak, can this be strengthened?
- Use of HPCs remains a concern for us: this is a wider
problem for HEP workflows.
Analysis Facilities and Use Cases
- Expanded summary + follow-up asked to be presented at next
WLCG GDB meeting on April 11th. Eduardo to do it.
- We need to keep activities alive, “connected” and,
hopefully, focused, with an effective communication across
experiments in particular. Some suggestions will probably
be written down in the GDB presentation.
- Example activity: ALICE tests of Apache Arrow + TDataFrame.
- Documentation of how to use profiles / static analysers
- Web based GUI to browse and compare different profilers.
- Common plugin based mechanism for clang-tidy so that adding
checks does not require modifying the upstream sources.
- R&D prospects primarily in WM aspects of WLCG-led DOMA/data
lakes R&D and how to use WM to manage/optimize
- Link to frameworks and what the brokered units of work are,
across the scale spectrum from datasets to events.
- DOMA = data organization, management and access
- WLCG led, some ongoing discussions identified.
- Trust groups with grid/campus teams.
Performance and Cost Modeling
- WLCG led, group is pretty active already.
Data Preservation for HEP
- Organised community.
- Links to analysis.
Training and Careers
- Technology watch group should be launched. Relationship to
other groups (Cost Model, Benchmarking) should be defined,
but not merging them at the moment.
- Andrea - worried about the generators in general. Deserves
some follow-up, Graeme involved (but unfortunately off
next week at the time of the next MCnet meeting,
Liz can engage with MCnet people next week. Idea
starting to be discussed to organise a workshop dedicated
to computing requirements for generators at HL-LHC.
Configuration of generators has a big impact on resource
consumption. Need to do some baseline benchmarking between
the different experiments and get an understanding of
costs in each generator and costs of each process.
- Links to OpenLab are important - they produced their own
White Paper end of last year, for the next 3 years of
Practical follow ups at the HSF level
- Inventory of community activities.
- Should go with general website reorganisation.
- More variation in themes in these meetings (more topical)
- Would really need a better room to show slides on Vidyo.
- Time ok? It’s rather early for Pacific Time.
- Need also to have organising meetings, but alternating would work.
- Collaboration guide for projects
- New white paper suggested by Pete (but short!)
General Matters and Roadmap
- Second draft of one of the Symmetry Magazine articles from Sarah
- CWP article was published in the CERN Courier April edition
(cover this in the newsletter too).
- Graeme will give a CWP talk at the GridPP40
- Publication in CSBS - need to follow up with the editors.
- Graeme and Michel to follow up.
Publication strategy for Individual WG Papers
- Sergei says it’s basically done, “waiting for an updated
version of a plot and we are good to go to the arxiv”.
Software Trigger and Event Reconstruction
- PR for the documents repo please!
Data Organisation, Management and Access
- Last call for comments about the LaTeX paper in Overleaf:
expires end of next week. Will be ready for arXiv
Data Analysis and Interpretation
- Still problems uploading to arXiv?
- Paul has not followed up yet.
- Discussed at Naples. Feeling was that the CWP chapter was
good enough and that there should be more of a work plan
oriented follow up with the theory community, an autumn
workshop? N.B. There is an MCnet
next week at CERN.
- “Advert paragraph” for upcoming 3rd CHEP bulletin in preparation.
- Agenda itself will be given a push in the next week or so.
- We have 23 participants registered so far - a healthy number.
- Organise meeting with Belle II who are interested in clarifying
- Follow-up time with FastJet.
- Indico will move from GPLv3 to MIT license in next version (2.1) to
make easier adoption outside the academic world. See
All commit authors contacted.
- ATLAS: looking at making the code public but stuck in trying to
“sanitize” the history… Advice/recommendations from HSF and the
community may help…
- Create a "federation" of existing schools, a "logical" place
(instead of a "physical" one) where to plan together school
calendars, training materials, eventually exchange tutors and
slides and so on.
- Make sure is that all of us representing our different experiments
have a mandate from our own very experiment to represent it. This
is important to ensure continuity in representation of an
experiment/community and make it an individual independent.
- Let us try to meet virtually post Napoli meeting to discuss the
future path of Training and Career
- A good place would be to have a website displaying schedule of
Training activities of our experiments of the kind that all of us
showed in our talks so that we are all aware of what is happening.
- Also we should have an egroup kind of email to communicate with this
- At the same time we can think of creating common training material
up to the point where it becomes experiment specific. There was a
lot of common training topics listed in all the talks and those
would be a good place to start.
- A future step should be, if possible to invite, training experts
from one experiment to the other to get a first hand feeling
commonality. Such an opportunity can be communicated via the above
- Discussion slot last week in Naples - good to communicate with a
wider group of developers.
- Containers are important and simplify things.
- Test driving solutions is the next practical step.
- Reviewed Naples.
- Feedback from first (naive) test drive of Nix
- Next meeting 18
- Student applications now closed. Have asked mentors to provide
feedback on the proposals - ranking for the students needs to be
communicated to the admins. Today is the hard deadline!
- Tomorrow admins will meet and decide on the min/max slots to give to
Google. Min = number of projects with very good students; Max =
add projects with good, but not outstanding, students. No
decisions on projects yet.